Stop Hit and run

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    • Stop Hit and run

      Every Veteran knows the trick. You attack with range weapon and have 1 min to run bwfore enemy range weapon with same rangw returns fire.

      It should be a easy job for a developer to chwck at momwnt of damage calcumation if defensive unit has same range and deal damage to offender as well without 1 min delay.
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • It's just like real life.
      A 1-7ish minute buffer IS real.
      It takes time to tilt the weapon around, figure out where to shoot, and actually fire it.
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • We did discuss this some while back: ideas ran like "have a timer", "make them deploy & undeploy" etc, but actually we decided that this was an important part of the fun and meta for quite a few experienced players.
      Previously we had already fixed some issues with returning fire so basically you shouldn't be able to pull this off when in range of any other ranged unit. At least to my knowledge.
      Eventually we decided to shelve the overhaul for the sake of the "skill" involved. Do you concur? Let me know...

      //G
      "Going to war without France is like going hunting without an accordion." Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf
    • Germanico.
      I have used naval officer level 2ish+level 4 destroyer to hit numerous enemy cruisers, I once hit him 5 times, took only 1 wave of damage.
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • Not everything can be real, would rather 75% real than 0% real.
      Hmm, IRL belgium's military isn't much smaller than Austria's tbh.
      Why does Belgium have no production capability ingame?
      Lol, because there needs to be a balance between real life and balancing.
      "Le patriotisme, c'est aimer son pays. Le nationalisme, c'est détester celui des autres."-Charles De Gaulle, Leader of Free France in World War 2.
      English: "Patriotism is to love your country. Nationalism is hating that of others."
    • sounds pretty real to me, real-life expressions representing it are

      Taking the enemy by surprise
      or
      who shoots first shoots twice
      or...

      it's one of the various 'features' that give active players an advantage, like trying to catch SAMs with planes without being taken out.

      without those, the skill factor is decreased and we go more towards 'whoever builds the biggest army wins'

      it ain't broken, i think
    • thats the thing. Its a game and it generates s a unfair advantage by using a bug for the player who knows it. It has nothing to do with good strategie and planning.
      This game already gives active players a big advantage over casual players (using aa tick and so on) so well why not balance this.
      I mean when i go into melee i also eat damage from rhe defender. Distance fight should be the same.
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • In terms of balance, it depends what you mean by "removing hit&run" but if it just means that artilleries/ships retaliate automatically, the counter to it has already been found and is heavily exploitable due to how the game works.
      It's now to the point that using the agressive mode (that supposedly retaliate immediatly when you are shot on) is a curse.

      Worst, if you remove it, it will be a buff to artillery/ships, in the meaning that the only people that benefit from such a feature would be... well, the people using (overusing ?) the artillery.

      Currently, the existence of hit&run forces me to be really active when i play, be it on the defensive (i sleep = i die ) or on the offensive (i sleep = i die). If it's removed, i can sleep way more easily and still be very efficient.

      But if i can still "shoot, move, shoot, move" against armored targets, it's awful : it's a buff to my playstyle, and it turns artilleries into being even more meta than before, in even more situations.

      In other words : fixing hit&run may be a good idea, even if i'm not gonna lie : I know by experience and because it happened already, that people will find a way. In the past, bytro attempted something radical, with systematical change to how the game reacted. Basically, whenever a ranged group shot on another, it immediatly checked if it could retaliate, and did so. Next thing player does, it's to systematically sacrifice an artillery, then hit&run as usual (but safer) within the minute where the group is reloading.

      Of course, this was BEFORE people understood they could abuse this "single artillery trick" by exploiting how mitigation worked, to ensure that even the artillery survived to the shoot of the other group.

      What is important on fixing, if you ever want to change hit&run and if you want to reduce the eternal problem of "people who are very active and studied the game have a huge edge over less active people", it should be focused around "not moving", or improving the odds that armored groups can actually reach artillery lines without being hit&runned themselves.

      It's why germanico refers about deployment time and cooldowns before moving : The aim is less artillery vs artillery, than artillery vs close combat.

      But if you manage to fix armor vs artillery, you also fix somewhat artillery vs artillery.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • As being an online game every possibilty to deal damage without taking damage (because the other player is offline) is an advantage that is kind of an unbalance. So artillery is the big thing and an only be topped by airforce to to the fast deploymment aorund the world (doctrine mobility)

      The single artillery trick doesnt work if every artillery in a stack has its own "depot of ammunition"...so you dont waste the whole 1 hour tick by killing 1 "disposable unit". But again as I said...no 1 minute waiting time for reaction...
      Alle sagten: Das geht nicht. Dann kam einer, der wusste das nicht und hat es einfach gemacht.
    • I agree. It however doesn't change that in a twisted way, without adressing the elephant in the room of "close combat vs artillery", we would be giving ourselves "another advantage" against the 95%, while giving ourselves "a comfort" against our fellow 5%.

      If the general population reasoned as follows : "Oh, yes, now i will get less hit&runned when i use artillery so i can use them more, isn't it ?", i would be even more in agreement, but i doubt it's how the general behaviour would react.

      I wouldn't complain to be sure that if i go to sleep for one hour, nobody will be able to shoot me without me shooting back, and it would actually make defensive positioning in mountins vastly superior in artillery vs artillery (where currently it's more the opposite), but i need to account for my own bias.

      Instinctively we are bound to try to "defend our steak". I can't deny that the fact my brain tells me "yeah, no problem, won't change anything for us hyper active, it will just give us sleep, and we deserve it" isn't to comfort me, because supposedly, i should feel at least a part of my playstyle to be threatened by it.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • "The single artillery trick doesnt work if every artillery in a stack has its own "depot of ammunition"...so you dont waste the whole 1 hour tick by killing 1 "disposable unit". But again as I said...no 1 minute waiting time for reaction..."

      Sorry, didn't understood what you meant, here.

      EDIT : Nevermind. Yes, it already works that way. You kill a unit, you get a cooldown after 1 minute. Works better on Supremacy than on CoN, though, due to inherent speeds.
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.
    • Opulon wrote:

      In terms of balance, it depends what you mean by "removing hit&run" but if it just means that artilleries/ships retaliate automatically, the counter to it has already been found and is heavily exploitable due to how the game works.
      Enlighten me plz. How?


      Opulon wrote:

      "The single artillery trick doesnt work if every artillery in a stack has its own "depot of ammunition"...so you dont waste the whole 1 hour tick by killing 1 "disposable unit". But again as I said...no 1 minute waiting time for reaction..."

      Sorry, didn't understood what you meant, here.

      EDIT : Nevermind. Yes, it already works that way. You kill a unit, you get a cooldown after 1 minute. Works better on Supremacy than on CoN, though, due to inherent speeds.
      I love this system but 1 min is over the board for me.
      I believed this would go well into the war information overhaul, like if u killed unidentified target it still go into 1 hour cool down.
      but will be 30 or 20 or 10 min if u are spotting that killed stack when u killed it.

      Opulon wrote:

      In other words : fixing hit&run may be a good idea, even if i'm not gonna lie
      I also agree this should be 'fixed' but atm i see no middle ground of 'if nerf, all range is trash' or 'if not neft, all range is god'
      no meta, I do what meta don't do and YEET them with ridiculous tactic. - IT YEET OR BE YEETED
    • Globally, it's why in the discussions more than one year ago we elaborated on "artillery needs to deploy before firing" that looked like the most simple yet the most efficient.

      To nerf hit&run, to increase the gap between two shots is already "not bad at all", especially if it forces the unit to "not move".


      "but will be 30 or 20 or 10 min if u are spotting that killed stack when u killed it". I think this is too complicated for the system to handle XD
      Running an online alliance is pretty much like running a small company, except you need to find other way than money to keep your employees productive. May they play or work, they are humans.