Cruisers Should Detect Choppers

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    • Cruisers Should Detect Choppers

      For all those resources, the chopper-killers are pretty much useless if they can't even detect choppers on radar. The more able players use the patrol circle attack method to circumvent triggering the AA defenses since their patrol circle is 50 and cruisers sight range is 40. What good are they for if they can't see choppers coming or even fire on them at all?
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny
    • Honestly, yes but even if they could detect choppers, it would not help against patrol attacks.

      Cruisers and MAAV are both quite useless against choppers, because their range is to low to protect other stacks against patrol attacks of choppers.

      The rework only affects ongoing patrols not patrol attacks, as far as I could experience so far.
    • Kalrakh wrote:

      Honestly, yes but even if they could detect choppers, it would not help against patrol attacks.

      Cruisers and MAAV are both quite useless against choppers, because their range is to low to protect other stacks against patrol attacks of choppers.

      The rework only affects ongoing patrols not patrol attacks, as far as I could experience so far.
      Please elaborate this distinction, sir.
      *** Warning: This poster is on double secret probation ***

      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • If you want to spot Choppers then get a frigate and upgrade it to reveal stealth aircraft.
      We could argue real world example of battleship types, i believe destoriers like HMS Defender is an air defense destorier yet destoriers ingame are totally useless vs aircraft.

      End of the day it comes down to the ASW helicopter and vs an inactive 5 stacks i lost over 10 maxxed helicopters trying to bring it down, because it had a frigate and that frigate was triggering the AA, then it had point defense.

      While you can "patrol" and place the very edge of the patrol circle to attack literally anything quicker and hopefully without triggering both point defense AA and passive scan AA. Its really a matter on how well trained your pilots are and how good the commander is.

      I wouldnt consider a max level cruiser with 75 hitpoints stacked with 150 hitpoint carrier and a +50% defense naval captian usless against a 6.5 damage helicopter with 25 hitpoints. Even if your dealing a single instance of 5.5 damage.

      Your dealing 20% of its HP in damage while its dealing around 8% of yours and AWS helicopters despite their requirement of a carrier or airfield have highly limited range. Just stack your taskforces better and you'll be dealing 40-60% damage for 8% return damage thats spread over multiple ships. Better yet wait for it to land and fire a chemical cruise missile at it, problem solved, no more antiship helicopters.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by crazystoner ().

    • crazystoner wrote:

      If you want to spot Choppers then get a frigate and upgrade it to reveal stealth aircraft.
      We could argue real world example of battleship types, i believe destoriers like HMS Defender is an air defense destorier yet destoriers ingame are totally useless vs aircraft.

      End of the day it comes down to the ASW helicopter and vs an inactive 5 stacks i lost over 10 maxxed helicopters trying to bring it down, because it had a frigate and that frigate was triggering the AA, then it had point defense.

      While you can "patrol" and place the very edge of the patrol circle to attack literally anything quicker and hopefully without triggering both point defense AA and passive scan AA. Its really a matter on how well trained your pilots are and how good the commander is.

      I wouldnt consider a max level cruiser with 75 hitpoints stacked with 150 hitpoint carrier and a +50% defense naval captian usless against a 6.5 damage helicopter with 25 hitpoints. Even if your dealing a single instance of 5.5 damage.

      Your dealing 20% of its HP in damage while its dealing around 8% of yours and AWS helicopters despite their requirement of a carrier or airfield have highly limited range. Just stack your taskforces better and you'll be dealing 40-60% damage for 8% return damage thats spread over multiple ships. Better yet wait for it to land and fire a chemical cruise missile at it, problem solved, no more antiship helicopters.

      But a chopper heals much faster than any ship ever could. It may take a while to grind them down, but the healing but the favor clearly on sight of the chopper, as long you are smart enough to not lose units. :)
    • Kalrakh wrote:

      Honestly, yes but even if they could detect choppers, it would not help against patrol attacks.

      Cruisers and MAAV are both quite useless against choppers, because their range is to low to protect other stacks against patrol attacks of choppers.

      The rework only affects ongoing patrols not patrol attacks, as far as I could experience so far.
      Then, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed as well as allowing cruisers to detect low air sigs. What the hell is the point of having MAAs at all in the game if their unique purpose (to fend off against choppers) is so easily negated?
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny
    • Sima wrote:

      Kalrakh wrote:

      Honestly, yes but even if they could detect choppers, it would not help against patrol attacks.

      Cruisers and MAAV are both quite useless against choppers, because their range is to low to protect other stacks against patrol attacks of choppers.

      The rework only affects ongoing patrols not patrol attacks, as far as I could experience so far.
      Then, that's definitely something that needs to be addressed as well as allowing cruisers to detect low air sigs. What the hell is the point of having MAAs at all in the game if their unique purpose (to fend off against choppers) is so easily negated?
      A good question, it is a topic I bring up all the time, even more because Elite Attack Choppers overpower MAAV anyway :D

      We now have RGs, though does not change low usefullness of MAAV.
    • Cruisers primary role is antiship warfare, not anti helicopter.
      If you want to take out helicopters may i suggest naval air superiorty fighters operating off a carrier with a supportive Naval AWACS.

      Infact i would argue, that to be effective with a cruiser stack you should have at least a carrier or a AWAC in your arsenal.
      The combination of both, well now your talking about a highly effective naval asset.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by crazystoner ().

    • Kalrakh wrote:

      Maybe if allies could land on your carriers, but who could afford a whole navy incl. carriers and NASF? There is a reason hardly anybody build carriers

      My main point is still: Range 50 is pretty useless against patrol attacks.
      Depends how you play and which country you start as.
      Here is my current game, this is just whats defending my captial city with.

      If you look at upgrades of each unit, you will have some idea what i have prioritized.

      One of the hardest games i have played, Mozambique dropped enough gold to build 25+ destoryiers, annex many cities and fight off a four man alliance's land invasion until nukes started dropping.

      But i am by far the most powerful naval force on the planet and have been since very early, its why a little island in the South Pacific will be clenching a solo victory in this game. I was lucky he was just a Corporal, spamming basic destoryers which i annilated without losing a single naval asset.

      To give you some prospective, the infantry and artillery you see are starting units.
      Veterans of a global war that will end on day 39.
      Files
      • nz winning.jpg

        (546 kB, downloaded 8 times, last: )
    • crazystoner wrote:

      Cruisers primary role is antiship warfare, not anti helicopter.
      If you want to take out helicopters may i suggest naval air superiorty fighters operating off a carrier with a supportive Naval AWACS.

      Infact i would argue, that to be effective with a cruiser stack you should have at least a carrier or a AWAC in your arsenal.
      The combination of both, well now your talking about a highly effective naval asset.
      I never brought their primary role into question, just the fact that they are the most suited naval vessel against choppers, yet they can't even see them coming on radar. Additionally, choppers can patrol-attack them without the cruisers even getting a shot off or their AA triggering. It's inarguable that the best way to fend off choppers is by [N]ASFs, but, if you're building cruisers expecting them to put out the damage vs choppers that their attributes purport to, then there ought not to be a loophole that ENTIRELY negates all the time, effort, and resources put in building them to fend off choppers (as well as dominate the seas).

      Kalrakh wrote:

      Maybe if allies could land on your carriers, but who could afford a whole navy incl. carriers and NASF? There is a reason hardly anybody build carriers

      My main point is still: Range 50 is pretty useless against patrol attacks.
      It's about the sight range, though, bro. Cruisers won't see the choppers at all since they won't show on radar AND the chopper patrol radius is bigger than the cruiser's, rendering the latter impotent to fulfill its primary AA role.
      "Any of you *uckin' pricks move, and I'll execute every mother*uckin' last one of ya!" - Honey Bunny
    • Sima wrote:

      crazystoner wrote:

      Cruisers primary role is antiship warfare, not anti helicopter.
      If you want to take out helicopters may i suggest naval air superiorty fighters operating off a carrier with a supportive Naval AWACS.

      Infact i would argue, that to be effective with a cruiser stack you should have at least a carrier or a AWAC in your arsenal.
      The combination of both, well now your talking about a highly effective naval asset.
      I never brought their primary role into question, just the fact that they are the most suited naval vessel against choppers, yet they can't even see them coming on radar. Additionally, choppers can patrol-attack them without the cruisers even getting a shot off or their AA triggering. It's inarguable that the best way to fend off choppers is by [N]ASFs, but, if you're building cruisers expecting them to put out the damage vs choppers that their attributes purport to, then there ought not to be a loophole that ENTIRELY negates all the time, effort, and resources put in building them to fend off choppers (as well as dominate the seas).

      Kalrakh wrote:

      Maybe if allies could land on your carriers, but who could afford a whole navy incl. carriers and NASF? There is a reason hardly anybody build carriers

      My main point is still: Range 50 is pretty useless against patrol attacks.
      It's about the sight range, though, bro. Cruisers won't see the choppers at all since they won't show on radar AND the chopper patrol radius is bigger than the cruiser's, rendering the latter impotent to fulfill its primary AA role.
      Every unit get revealed while it attacks, but does not matter, if you attack a different stack and therefore the patrol keeps you out of their range.
    • There is two forms of defense, point defense and triggered AA

      If you have 5 cruiser, none of them are stacked together, rather you have them with overlapping AA, if attack a single cruiser, that single cruiser with deal point defense, if the AA is triggered it will trigger all 5 cruisers AA. Therefore i will take a max of 6 cruisers of damage.

      If instead you have 5 cruisers in a single stack, and i attack the stack, i will take 5 cruisers of damage in point defense and another 5 cruiser damage in triggered AA resulting in 10 cruisers worth of damage.

      Of course, with helicopters being so slow, you can infact trigger that AA twice resulting in 15 cruisers of damage.

      Biggest differnce is point def has no cooldown, i can't send 100 cruise missile at a missile defense system because every single one will be shot down by point defense. I can how ever attack units that are not stacked with a missile defense system because the triggered AA has a 10min cooldown period.

      So those helicopters, even using patrol, are still taking damage.
      But we are talking about cruisers, shoot a cruise missile at the airfield when it lands.
      Move your cruisers out of range, your complaining about inactive cruisers dying to active helicopters, just build a carrier and have fighter jets patrolling. War is not as easy as having the biggest militarty, otherwise there would be no point in having players, having us as commanders. The USA and Russia would just win every single game! Countries like New Zealand wouldn't win anything but i just showed you what a little island nation can do in a single image.

      Like i said above, build a carrier, get naval fighter planes, get a naval AWAC.
      Because the earth is a sphere, low flying helicopters that stay low to the ground cannot be detected by normal radar.

      Honestly as someoen who made a massive fleet of AWS helicopters, cruiser are extremely strong against helicopter and there is a reason everyone spam cruisers and no one makes AWS helicopters. Fact your asking for a bigger imbalance just blows my mind! I mean yours not talking about frigates with their 1 heli defs, but cruisers! like WHAT!