New Unit: Electronic Warfare Aircraft

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    • WalterChang wrote:

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      They grow up so fast (sniff)
      We don't grow up. At all.


      Sorry about all that rubbish. Here's a serious question:
      What happens, the way you envision this thing working, when both sides in a conflict are using the EWA in the same place?
      They won’t open a black hole of that was what you are getting at. Inside the overlapping area, both your units and the enemy units will have their radar signals jammed. EWA itself cannot be jammed
      Yee Haw
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Pah, the power on the PBU goes up to 11
      -
      Yeah, but the EWA would render the PB's operators completely blind, so they wouldn't be able to see the controls in order to turn the volume up, or tell their friend that's sitting next to them to do it because their communications wouldn't work.
      Completely wrong. Have you even read my posts?The EWA would interfere with the electrical signals in the Operator’s brain, causing them into go into a coma and rendering the PBU unit useless
      Ha! shows what you know! Propagandists have no brains to be interfered with, by necessity.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • In my opinion, the type of jamming you're suggesting is way to op. It works too heavily against AA. It also makes stealth units obsolete. As a huge fan of the F-22 and B-2 bomber I'm against it, they would be obsolete, because regular planes wouldn't be seen anyways. I definitely am in favor of some sort of electronic warfare, because that's how future wars could be fought.
    • Job_ee wrote:

      In my opinion, the type of jamming you're suggesting is way to op. It works too heavily against AA. It also makes stealth units obsolete. As a huge fan of the F-22 and B-2 bomber I'm against it, they would be obsolete, because regular planes wouldn't be seen anyways. I definitely am in favor of some sort of electronic warfare, because that's how future wars could be fought.
      Well the argument still stands that dedicated stealth aircraft like the ones you mention are actually stealthy in nature. Regular planes, despite not being visible to the enemy, are not stealthy because the enemy knows they are there (jamming signal). If the effect is too powerful it can be adjusted accordingly

      As for SAMs, well the fixed wing meta is suffering right now. Many experienced players regard planes like Strike Fighters as garbage because SAMs annihilate them. EWA is designed to combat SAMs. It is one of their key abilities



      This short video summarizes how EWA combats SAMs, allowing friendly aircraft to fly by them without being shot
      Yee Haw

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Colonel Waffles ().

    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      As for SAMs, well the fixed wing meta is suffering right now. Many experienced players regard planes like Strike Fighters as garbage because SAMs annihilate them. EWA is designed to combat SAMs. It is one of their key abilities
      What was your verdict on SAMs (not) having point defence if they're jammed?
      (I personally don't think they should have point defence anyway - that's not how they work, and it makes them too powerful Vs fixed-wing direct attacks)
    • WalterChang wrote:

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      As for SAMs, well the fixed wing meta is suffering right now. Many experienced players regard planes like Strike Fighters as garbage because SAMs annihilate them. EWA is designed to combat SAMs. It is one of their key abilities
      What was your verdict on SAMs (not) having point defence if they're jammed?(I personally don't think they should have point defence anyway - that's not how they work, and it makes them too powerful Vs fixed-wing direct attacks)
      SAMs will always have point defense no matter what

      The reasoning behind this is that making SAMs actually useless would be quite OP. Even if the EWA can only jam while patrolling the fact that a SAM could be shredded by SF is questionable. They also don’t loose too much realism in doing this. After all, the point is to protect the planes from getting targeted by SAMs, not to attack the SAMs themselves

      I’m not sure how I feel about SAMs. SAMs can be a complicated unit so ways to deal with them aren’t exactly clear
      Yee Haw
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Job_ee wrote:

      In my opinion, the type of jamming you're suggesting is way to op. It works too heavily against AA. It also makes stealth units obsolete. As a huge fan of the F-22 and B-2 bomber I'm against it, they would be obsolete, because regular planes wouldn't be seen anyways. I definitely am in favor of some sort of electronic warfare, because that's how future wars could be fought.
      Well the argument still stands that dedicated stealth aircraft like the ones you mention are actually stealthy in nature. Regular planes, despite not being visible to the enemy, are not stealthy because the enemy knows they are there (jamming signal). If the effect is too powerful it can be adjusted accordingly
      As for SAMs, well the fixed wing meta is suffering right now. Many experienced players regard planes like Strike Fighters as garbage because SAMs annihilate them. EWA is designed to combat SAMs. It is one of their key abilities



      This short video summarizes how EWA combats SAMs, allowing friendly aircraft to fly by them without being shot
      Who says fixed wing meta is suffering? All units can't be meta. You truly want a game of checkers where all units are equal, GO PLAY CHECKERS then.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      WalterChang wrote:

      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      As for SAMs, well the fixed wing meta is suffering right now. Many experienced players regard planes like Strike Fighters as garbage because SAMs annihilate them. EWA is designed to combat SAMs. It is one of their key abilities
      What was your verdict on SAMs (not) having point defence if they're jammed?(I personally don't think they should have point defence anyway - that's not how they work, and it makes them too powerful Vs fixed-wing direct attacks)
      SAMs will always have point defense no matter what
      The reasoning behind this is that making SAMs actually useless would be quite OP. Even if the EWA can only jam while patrolling the fact that a SAM could be shredded by SF is questionable. They also don’t loose too much realism in doing this. After all, the point is to protect the planes from getting targeted by SAMs, not to attack the SAMs themselves

      I’m not sure how I feel about SAMs. SAMs can be a complicated unit so ways to deal with them aren’t exactly clear
      But how can any unit have point defense still if everybody in the unit has turned into Stevie Wonder (no sight range) because they had their sight jammed???
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      But how can any unit have point defense still if everybody in the unit has turned into Stevie Wonder (no sight range) because they had their sight jammed???
      Stuff gets point defence against Stealths, and they can't see them.

      Maybe that should be changed? Then you could use stealths as specialist anti-SAM weapons to clear the way for your conventional airforce? I guess you can already do that to an extent; but there's also the fact that if you've got enough stealths to clear SAMs out the way of a target you want to hit, you don't really need your conventional airforce anyway because you've done the job already.
    • WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      But how can any unit have point defense still if everybody in the unit has turned into Stevie Wonder (no sight range) because they had their sight jammed???
      Stuff gets point defence against Stealths, and they can't see them.
      Maybe that should be changed? Then you could use stealths as specialist anti-SAM weapons to clear the way for your conventional airforce? I guess you can already do that to an extent; but there's also the fact that if you've got enough stealths to clear SAMs out the way of a target you want to hit, you don't really need your conventional airforce anyway because you've done the job already.
      Untrue, the text clearly says:
      -
      stealth4.jpg

      Which clearly means it IS VISIBLE when attacking. Checkmate!
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Which clearly means it IS VISIBLE when attacking. Checkmate!
      Yeah, it becomes visible for a short time - and you can see where they're based, more importantly.
      Would that happen with planes attacking under EWA jamming?
      That was my point. Waffles wants to have it both ways, no sight, yet magically point defense functions.
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Which clearly means it IS VISIBLE when attacking. Checkmate!
      Yeah, it becomes visible for a short time - and you can see where they're based, more importantly.Would that happen with planes attacking under EWA jamming?
      That was my point. Waffles wants to have it both ways, no sight, yet magically point defense functions.
      Point defense doesn’t trigger because of the stealth being revealed, it triggers because of the attack. Whether it’s SAMs or AFV point defense will always be triggered when attacked

      The relationship between SAMs and EWA would not be a clear one. Disabling point defense could be detrimental to the balance of those units, or maybe it could be a way to better balanced fixed wing

      How do you think it should work? (For the sake of balance, not realism)
      Yee Haw
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Which clearly means it IS VISIBLE when attacking. Checkmate!
      Yeah, it becomes visible for a short time - and you can see where they're based, more importantly.Would that happen with planes attacking under EWA jamming?
      That was my point. Waffles wants to have it both ways, no sight, yet magically point defense functions.
      Point defense doesn’t trigger because of the stealth being revealed, it triggers because of the attack. Whether it’s SAMs or AFV point defense will always be triggered when attacked
      The relationship between SAMs and EWA would not be a clear one. Disabling point defense could be detrimental to the balance of those units, or maybe it could be a way to better balanced fixed wing

      How do you think it should work? (For the sake of balance, not realism)
      Sorry, that is insane. The attack? and how do you think the attack is identified? BY SIGHT!!!!
      -
      mystery.jpg
      *** The Creator of Zombie Farming ***
      The KING of CoN News!!!
      The "Get off my lawn!" cranky CoN Forums Poster - not affiliated with Dorado in any way


      "Death comes to us all. Shall I deal you in?" - DoD
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Which clearly means it IS VISIBLE when attacking. Checkmate!
      Yeah, it becomes visible for a short time - and you can see where they're based, more importantly.Would that happen with planes attacking under EWA jamming?
      That was my point. Waffles wants to have it both ways, no sight, yet magically point defense functions.
      Point defense doesn’t trigger because of the stealth being revealed, it triggers because of the attack. Whether it’s SAMs or AFV point defense will always be triggered when attacked
      The relationship between SAMs and EWA would not be a clear one. Disabling point defense could be detrimental to the balance of those units, or maybe it could be a way to better balanced fixed wing

      How do you think it should work? (For the sake of balance, not realism)
      Stealth units reveal themselves during an attack, that is why you can see Specs, if they are in close combat with another stack. Same goes for sub, if they continue to shoot instead of retreating.
    • Dealer of Death wrote:

      Sorry, that is insane. The attack? and how do you think the attack is identified? BY SIGHT!!!!
      It isn't by sight. It's a mysterious kind of effect whereby the stealth aircraft is revealed at the exact moment it strikes - not slightly before or slightly after. Even if the SAM is destroyed outright in the first attack, it still deals its point defence damage, despite not having seen it's attacker before it was destroyed. It's a gameplay abstraction and it makes zero real-world sense.

      So, you could have the EWA disable sight-range for units within its direct-jamming range and still have them use their point-defence values, and it'd be in keeping with how Stealths are handled by the game currently. Units within the proposed EWA jamming range would have to be revealed during an attack, otherwise they really would have an advantage over purpose-built Stealth units, and thereby probably entirely replace them. (Which I don't think is the intention with this suggestion?)
    • WalterChang wrote:

      Dealer of Death wrote:

      Sorry, that is insane. The attack? and how do you think the attack is identified? BY SIGHT!!!!
      It isn't by sight. It's a mysterious kind of effect whereby the stealth aircraft is revealed at the exact moment it strikes - not slightly before or slightly after. Even if the SAM is destroyed outright in the first attack, it still deals its point defence damage, despite not having seen it's attacker before it was destroyed. It's a gameplay abstraction and it makes zero real-world sense.


      Well, there could be some explanation. One reason could be that the long range “search radar” can’t see it but the tracking radar can

      Or, the stealth aircraft must expose itself. From what I understand, the IRL F-35 can hide weapons inside of itself to improve its stealth, but it becomes more vulnerable to radar when attacking


      So, you could have the EWA disable sight-range for units within its direct-jamming range and still have them use their point-defence values, and it'd be in keeping with how Stealths are handled by the game currently. Units within the proposed EWA jamming range would have to be revealed during an attack, otherwise they really would have an advantage over purpose-built Stealth units, and thereby probably entirely replace them. (Which I don't think is the intention with this suggestion?)
      This is a tricky one and really the point defense is preserved purely for gameplay reasons.
      It could work that stealth have a particular advantage in this scenario, not taking point defense damage, but this suggestion already challenges legacy code quite a bit and more holes in it would be harder to work with
      Yee Haw
    • Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Well, there could be some explanation. One reason could be that the long range “search radar” can’t see it but the tracking radar can
      The radar explanation wouldn't apply to units that don't have radar. And they still do point defence damage when attacked by Stealths. I don't think this is an example of something that can be rationalized into a real-world explanation, honestly. There's plenty of abstraction in the game, and that's fine.


      Colonel Waffles wrote:

      Or, the stealth aircraft must expose itself. From what I understand, the IRL F-35 can hide weapons inside of itself to improve its stealth, but it becomes more vulnerable to radar when attacking
      When I was a kid, I used to have a game on my Amiga by Microprose called "F-19 Stealth Fighter" (I think they weren't allowed to call it F-117 for some reason, until they brought out a sequel called just that, but it was always meant to be an F-117 sim). It was probably as realistic a combat flight sim as you could get at the time, but obviously nothing like what you can get nowadays. Anyway, in that game, opening the bomb bays did increase your radar visibility, as did firing ordnance - so it must be true! But yeah, I don't think that can be applied to CoN as an explanation for this.